during the reagan years when we had a big budget reduction, it was 60 billion. when we had the big agreement with clinton, again, we're talking about billions. they're talking trillions now. >> so it's huge. >> it's huge, and it touches everything, defense and taxes and entitlements, discretionary spending and trying to get thehe right blend and result is not easy. >> let me ask you about presidential clout. president obama made it a big deal in his press conference about not having his phone call returned. i mean, is that odd? can you imagine a president calling congress and not getting his call returned? >> well, i have to say i think i can recall times in the past where, you know, if you don't have anything you can say to the president, you're going to wait until you've got a constructive comment to make. i don't think he didn't get the call. he didn't get the call in the time he expected, but, you know, they're all in this together. they realize that, and now they're bumping up against a real deadline. it may be 4:00 this afternoon. it may be next -- august